Help talk:Referencing for beginners

Use of the same reference in multiple WP articles

I need some advice concerning what to do when citing the same source, such as a newspaper article, in multiple WP articles.

1. Should I assign different names to the references in each article? For example :<ref name="Smith 2021 A">content</ref> in the first article, :<ref name="Smith 2021 B">content</ref> in the second article, etc. Or can I simply use the same ref name in each article, as long as the source cited is the same?

2. If I can't use the same ref name in multiple articles, is it possible to somehow invoke a named footnote of the original reference in other articles? For example: When I invoke :<ref name="Smith 2021 A" /> in a second article, I get an error message saying: "Cite error: The named reference Smith 2021 A was invoked but never defined (see the help page)."

3. On the same help page, it reads: "References may also be defined within the reference list.". Is this something I can use to solve the problem with my previous example, in which the reference is not defined?

I hope my questions makes sense to the more experienced editors and thanks in advance for any help you can provide on the subject.

/Stefan 2.65.44.97 (talk) 12:09, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Duplication of "Introduction to referencing with Wiki Markup"

This help page is now just an exact copy of Help:Introduction to referencing with Wiki Markup, except embedded section by section onto a single page. The line breaks don't look great that way, and the example "References" section looks like it's one of the main sections.

Why don't we just redirect to the other Help page? --Lord Belbury (talk) 18:32, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi Lord Belbury (and thanks for the edit you made earlier; it's definitely a plus)! The reason for the page's setup is that there's some history of controversy over whether or not we should be splitting tutorials over multiple pages. Those in favor argue that it's a usability best practice to keep pages short, whereas those opposed argue that it's the norm on Wikipedia to have everything on a single page. The data about which method gets more people to read all the way through is lacking. Until that question is resolved, having both options available is the stalemate compromise. I agree that it's not ideal with the line breaks; perhaps we should just get rid of those in the main tutorial or find a way to code them that doesn't transclude. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:29, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the line breaks are quite bad here, if we're presenting this as a help page for very new users (it's linked from {{uw-unsourced1}}) and suggesting that quadruple spacing between paragraphs on a regular-looking Wikipedia page is fine. I wouldn't know where to start on fixing that, though. --Lord Belbury (talk) 10:46, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

@Lord Belbury, I'd start by posting on Help talk:Introduction saying you'd like to convert all the spacing to single-spacing. We can discuss that, and then if there's consensus, anyone can go through the list of tutorial pages and switch them over. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 00:28, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Would be a great first step in making them accsible....one of many problems being ignored causing us to loss thousands of new editors.--Moxy- 00:31, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Why are these on this page

What's up with the CSD and redirect templates? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:19, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Fixed here...@Antoine Legrand:...Caused by a half done move that is messing up the other page now ...Help:Introduction to referencing with wiki markup/1....one example of why transclusion is not always best. Edit reverted.--Moxy- 11:34, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Yikes, my watchlist blew up due to all the disruption overnight, and the results here have been a mess, so trouts all around.

First, Antoine Legrand, thank you for taking on the task of correcting the capitalization error of wiki markup being miscapitalized as "Wiki Markup"—it's always nice to have proper styling and consistency. However, as you are still a new editor, I have to urge you to slow down and be more cautious. Page moves are much more difficult to undo than other types of edits, and when they happen on an interrelated set of pages like this, things get really complicated really quickly. Next time, please go to the talk page first—if that had happened here, I would have seen it and been able to help the move happen without disruption. No hard feelings—we all have a learning curve—but just something to please keep in mind going forward.

Second, Moxy, as always, it is extremely difficult to tell what you are doing due to your poor communication, and your editing pattern does not demonstrate competence. Don't move help pages to your userspace and then request that they be speedily deleted. Thankfully, JBW declined it and helped clean up some of the mess, and it looks like Primefac has (just now as I'm typing) helped clean up the remainder and restored the fractured edit history. Sorry to be blunt, but this is an ongoing issue, and my view of your editing is no secret, so this shouldn't be anything new.

It looks like everything is hopefully stable again (I'll double check later), so hopefully there's nothing further we need to do. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:15, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

No problem ....all fixed so it works ..WP:SWAP..thanks to Primefac for the final fix. If only it was normal .Moxy- 10:36, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@Sdkb: I am really sorry for all the inconvenience due to my attempt of correcting the capitalization error of wiki markup being miscapitalized as "Wiki Markup". Today, I worked quite a lot to "update" Help:Getting started and Help:Introduction and there are still a lot of improvements pending! After much thought, I think it is even better to get entirely rid of "Wiki Markup" and use "Source editor" as all the pages in the tutorials Help:Introduction were already referring quite extensively to "Source editor". I think that "Source editor" is more appropriate for newbies (as Wikipedia user interface refers to: Visual editing and Source editing). What do you think of this and is it possible for you to help me in that way? Antoine Legrand (talk) 23:40, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

I noticed those, and I agree we should try to standardize around a single terminology. Using "source editor" sounds good, as it aligns with the software and sounds more intuitive. I would open a discussion at Help talk:Introduction proposing a group move of all the "with Wiki Markup" pages to "with source editor". Once it gets enough input, we can go ahead with the move if there is consensus. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:44, 8 September 2021 (UTC)